sig rattler vs springfield saint

The pistol is supplied with flip-up front and rear sights that sit relatively tall when folded and dont take up much rail space. They are meant to be easier to use and harder-hitting than a handgun but smaller and lighter than a rifle. Essentially it boils down to performance and suppressibility. For sling attachment there was a fixed steel sling loop at the heel of the butt plate, or you could utilize the slot that ran parallel to the buffer tube beneath the cheek piece. A few times the bolt wouldnt lock back after firing the last round with the SilencerCo Omega 9K in place. There was another location for a QD sling from either side at the rear of the receiver just below where the buffer tube was attached. MSRP: $1,100; springfield-armory.com. Taylors & Company FS Tactical 1911: Now in 10mm! This round was designed to offer terminal ballistics similar to the AKs 7.62x39mm while still being compatible with AR-style rifles, requiring only a barrel change. I usually have to take break between mags. Working the Saint trigger differed from that of the SIG Sauer. "If I'd known I'd live this long I'd have taken better care of myself.". The metal loop at the heel of buttplate was free swinging. Our Suppressor Guru, seen here with a SIG Sauer SRD-762 on a SIG Rattler, provides some pointers. Thanks for opening my eyes. MCX-SPEAR . Hornadys 110-grain V-MAX bullet penetrated 26 inches and retained 88.7 grains of its original bullet weight. The AR pistol is a platform of many uses. 8 of the Top ARs for the Money - Wide Open Spaces SIG P320 TACOPS vs Springfield XDM Elite 4.5 Tactical 19,446 views Mar 13, 2020 370 Dislike Share Save Hammer Striker 79.8K subscribers In this video we compare two tactical offerings: The new. The Sig Rattler is only available with a 5.5 inch barrel, in 300 Blackout or 5.56mm. As to suppressibility, few centerfire rifle cartridges do it better. Springfield Armory's $899 Saint, the manufacturer's first AR-15, was treated to a Bravo Company BCM Gunfighter stock and Keymod handrail. Our Team Said: Priced at $900 MSRP, the Saint should be extremely competitive for first-time buyers. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! In addition to all that, for the features you get on this pistol, it is priced very reasonably. Is the Rattler a precision instrument? My wife said I'm going to buy me a new gun which one do you think the Blue or Orange . With a 9.6-inch barrel, M-LOK BCM Gunfighter handguard, forward handstop and more, that SAINT served as a solid introductory model. Hence there are solid copper bullets for high speed applications in 16 inch carbines (1/6 rate or greater) that shoot 300 BLK, but the ammo is expensive. With the Saint Edge series of ARs, you get nicely sculpted lower receivers machined from billet aluminum. Our action test was designed to tell us more about trigger response and maneuverability than could be culled from a static benchrest session. Sig M400 tread or Springfield saint victor : r/ar15 - reddit Saint Victor .308 competition | The Armory Life Forum I got several other Sigs (all calibers of P320, P365, P365xl, Xfive P320 Legion, and recently P226 Legion). Keep Reading. Filter SIG MCX . This website contains many older reviews. To the average shooter the price tag doesnt quite reflect it, but the Protector is top-shelf Wilson Combats entry-level 300 Blackout pistol option. With the specs they listed, the barrel couldnt be much more than 6 inches, and it had to havethe ability to swap between the specd .300 BLK top end and one chambered in 5.56. Upon an audible start signal, the shooter raised the carbine from low ready (about a 30-degree angle to the horizon), switched off the safety, and engaged each target with only one round before moving on. Im looking eventually for a Tread 400 (maybe this one?). As long as you are not expecting rifle-length performance out of a barrel this short, you wont be disappointed. Non-Lethal Personal & Home Defense with Byrna, Range Tested: EAA Girsan Pistols & Shotguns, New for 2023: Christensen Arms Modern Hunting Rifle (MHR), New for 2023: All-American RIA 5.0 Sporting Pistol, New for 2023: FN Rush 9Ti Pistol Suppressor, New Big Bore Pistols for 2023: FN 510 Tactical and FN 545 Tactical, New for 2023: FN SCAR 15P Rifle Caliber Pistol, First Look: Taurus Raging Hunter 460 Magnum Revolver With 10.5-Inch Barrel, New-for-2023 Taurus Judge Executive Grade 410/.45 Colt Revolver, Smith & Wesson Equalizer and the Brand New M&P 5.7 Pistol. Dependent on load, firearm and environment, expect anywhere from a 250 fps to 350 fps difference between the lengths. As a result, the American Tactical recently announced the company will offer two new bolt-action rifle systems from Black Creek Labs. Sig Sauer The AR Pistol Afield. I wrote SilencerCo to ask about the Hybrid compatibility. After comparing the two the Springfield was built better and looked better and had better brace . A late adopter of the AR, Springfield Armory has since risen to the top of mid-priced configurations. Higher-level shooters might prefer a hard break without overture, but its certainly not a distraction that will inhibit the experienced shooter. The combination of the mid-length gas system and the heavy buffer make a Saint very soft shooting. The trigger presented a crisp break at about 7.6 pounds of resistance with barely an ounce or two in variation from shot to shot. The system is also completely modular like the MPX. So after that day it was on my dream list . It was very easy to move quickly, and the gun always felt light. There was a slot for threading a sling and also a hole on each side for attaching a QD sling loop. Sure, they are a ton of fun at the range, teaching children how to shoot, and for use in defending the homestead, but consider them for hunting applications as well. June 22nd, 2017, 09:15 PM #2. . Over ten trigger pulls we never got the same reading twice. I'm ashamed I even own one let alone was considering buying the Saint. The bottom of the grip was removable, and there were fittings to hold popular batteries such as the CR123 or AA inside. It opened up at about 3 inches and penetrated 12.7 inches, retaining 192.8 grains of its original bullet weight. I was at a gun expo local set up by or LGS where all the repp's come and its a shoot day . They said nothing as short as the rattler. In 2017, the U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM) issued a Request For Information, basically asking someone to design a .300 Blackout PDW top end for them that a soldier could slap onto a standard M4 lower to create a concealable AR-based PDW. Many contend a 1:8 twist will stabilize heavy subsonic bullets. Certainly, you get all the nimbleness and convenience of the configuration in 5.56. FN sells a 16-inch-barreled carbine version of the P90, the PS90, but it looks ugly and awkward and is far from compact. For a company many people thought was years late to the AR party, Springfield Armory has done an amazing job in seizing a substantial percentage of the AR-15 marketplace, and theyre not slowing down. Anybody who has experience with these I would appreciate your opinions. Whereas the SIG Sauer presented direct pressure against a solid object, the Saints trigger offered a subtle compression before reaching its breaking point. The CMMGs single-finger-groove plastic grip is almost extinct because the divider can be uncomfortable and never really seems to be in the right place. Hampering this a bit out of the box is a mil-spec clone trigger, easily rectified with your favorite upgrade model. Learn how your comment data is processed. Cookie Notice And when the special operations community began searching for a new 300 Blackout PDW, Sig Sauer provided a solution with the SIG MCX Rattler. Definitely looking at the Sig, but having a hard time forking over that much money. The BCM Gunfighter grip provided a steeper angle than the others, including the Magpul grip found on the M400. All content is 2006-2015 Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association. Listen to both sides of the story before you make a decision based on one magazine article. Two apertures were supplied, but the larger aperture was too open, in our opinion. Do Pistols Benefit From Popular Aftermarket Modifications? But its really a 100-yard rifle with supersonic ammunition. The free-floated handguard offered Keymod machining on three sides, and the Picatinny top rail extended 11 inches from the receiver. Measuring Performance A PDW is not a rifle. Joe Kurtenbach, Executive Editor of Gun & Ammo, and John Myles from Smith & Wesson discuss features of the Equalizer 9mm micro-compact pistol and new-for-2023 M&P 5.7. The Saint is one of the most user-friendly versions of this user-friendly platform. Nevertheless, we were able to score A-zone hits with all 12 rounds fired before time ran out. Don't wrestle with pigs, don't argue with idiots. One set of Keymod holes was located on the underside at 6 oclock. Extraordinary accuracy. It was too short. Two of the loads were subsonic; Sigs 220-grain OTMs clustered into 0.7 inches while Lehigh Defenses 194-grain Maximum Expansion (ME) rounds created a 1-inch group. Most familiar with ARs know you dont have to go out and buy one specially chambered for the want-to-be 7.6239mm clone. I recently bought a Christensen Arms CA-15 G2 in Burnt Bronze, Stainless Steel Barrel w/ Carbon Fiber hand guard. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. This short barrel has a 1-in-5-inch twist rate optimized for heavy bullets, and its paired with an adjustable gas block so you can run the gun with a suppressor, for example. Probably 2k rounds through it and has always gone bang. After comparing the two the Springfield was built better and . Interestingly, Sig is one of the gunmakers that subscribe to faster-than-usual twist rates for 300 Blackout1:5. The Tread was $799.00 and the Saint was $849.00. [Review] Sig Sauer MCX Rattler PCB .300 BLK: Ultimate Backpack Gun In the same breath, the gun is compact enough to enhance its nimbleness, yet big enough to ensure the cartridges ballistic integrity. For more information, please see our As far as stabilization, it features the fairly standard SB Tactical SBA3 brace. Coming in at 5.1 pounds empty, sporting a 5.5-inch barrel and folded length of 17 inches, the MCX Rattler is definitely compact enough to be carried anywhere. I bought a Tread on a whim. I have a lot of love for my BCM because it was my first full build but the Saint is a great rifle off the shelf. Use of our website(s) implies understanding of our content disclaimer and privacy policy. Honey badger .300bo 5. At first glance, the $1250 SIG Sauer RM400 Classic looked like a standard model with only a flat-top rail above the receiver to break up the profile. You have entered an incorrect email address! An example that comes to mind is how the handguard that comes stock has mlok that only goes halfway down, and people complain about it getting real hot, and conveniently they sell a upgraded version with mlok that covers the whole thing, and effectively solves . The barrel is tipped with a special version of Maxim Defenses interesting Hate Brake. Aristotle who said Republics devolve into democracies and devolve into despotism.. Takedown revealed nickel-boron coating of hammer and trigger components, plus a tension screw to fix any gap between the upper and lower ends of the rifle. The MCX can be switched from 5.56mm NATO to 300 Blackout and back again, and users can easily install new barrels, handguards and stocks as needed. Support gear used:***Splatterburst Targetshttps://amzn.to/2Kera7g***Peltor Sport RangeGuard Hearing Protectionhttps://amzn.to/2LsLUbXThe Springfield XDM Elit. Also, unlike the HK MP7 and FN P90, you can actually buy a Springfield Armory PDW. Thanks to the precise trigger, the shooter always felt he was in complete control. Some of these extras include a top-end self-lubricating nickel-boron trigger, suppressor-ready heavy tungsten buffer, adjustable SB Tactical SBA3 brace and forward hand stop. It also directs sound and blast forward, away from the shooter and provides some flash reduction. The stripped-down SBR version of the Rattler weighs in at 5.7 pounds. Somy wife and i was having lunch with the Sig rep. and I asked about the .308 maybe coming out in the tread And he said soon which it did . All Rights Reserved. Ive also thought the same thing about 20-round magazines in a full-size AR. Love this gun . they bring all the guns and you buy the ammo and have a blast . Barnes 110-grain TAC-TX ammo was the most consistently accurate of the supersonics, with a group right at 0.75 inches. The new RIA 5.0 Sporting Pistol from Rock Island Armory features a patented RVS Recoil system that maximizes barrel mass and linear movement to give shooters super soft recoil. The art of shooting groups from support is about being patient. (CA Compliant). and the had the CZ Parrot checkmate 9mm $3,299. Barrel is Chromemoly Vanadium, Melonite coated inside and out, 1:8 twist and a NATO chamber. The Tread was $799.00 and the Saint was $849.00. Saint Edge in .300 blackout? | The Armory Life Forum Awesome pistol by the way. The Springfield Armory SAINT Line - The Armory Life Wow just read the article on TTAG. Pistol: Semi-Auto. The civilian version of the U.S. Army's new XM7 rifle. As a result of this solicitation, SIG Sauer designed the MCX Rattler, and Maxim Defense came out with the PDX. This removed any slack between the upper and lower ends of the rifle. At 1,900 fps, youll still get a good permanent wound cavity, some temporary cavity and the ability to defeat armor in most cases. As to the tale of the tape, the gun has a 10.5-inch cold hammer-forged barrel (1:7 twist) and comes in at a very agile 5.8 pounds. New Shooters Guide: What Is a Pistol Caliber Carbine? At that time the price on that gun was $1,800. Fun as all get out to rattle off the range. The second can was the Dead Air Sandman-K, which is slightly heavier at 12.8 ounces yet only 0.7 inches longer. Here are my personal Pros & Cons of the Saint Victor (FEATURELESS, CA Compliant version) Pros: - Comes with basic flip-up sights ready to go out of box - Full length M-Lok rail slots (TREAD seems to stop 8/10 of the way from the front) - Lighter Cons: - $1400+tax - 2 port MB rather than M400's 3 port (any difference in felt recoil?) The handguard does not have a rail on the top except for a very short section near the muzzle. I took the Saint victor home and that's all it wrote for me . MSRP: $2,000; wilsoncombat.com. More money for ammo, Fsatureless affords full capacity magazines, @bamaengineer may i ask why you would choose the Sig over the Saint? These two hunting loads made perfect little holes and passed through their blocks without expanding. So, as you can see, this is the ultimate platform for a protective detail, SWAT operations where concealability is paramount, or vehicle or home defense with responsible citizens. Purely on the rifle's features / traits wise, Update: im being told that both rifles are available for ~$1000 should I wait; i guess the extra $$$ is demand / price gouging for the saint. Is there anything sweeter than these mighty mites? But there are a few key reasons why the .30-caliber is better suited for compact ARs. Yes, we would have preferred a flat-top gas block with rail for attaching a folding front sight, and were not exactly sure how to connect a sling to the front end without pulling on the barrel, but were not sure there is much else wrong. SIG MCX Virtus & SIG MCX Rattler Rifles | SIG SAUER One by-product of this arrangement was an extension of the lower portion of the bolt lock/release lever. Reptilia sent me one of these compact grips late last year. You have entered an incorrect email address! Two additional components from Bravo Company contributed to the Saints distinctive lines. Starting in 2009, Advanced Armament Corporation (AAC), in cooperation with Remington Defense, took J.D. Its so small you barely know its there, and its also rated for sub- and supersonic loads. Units specializing in covert, ship-borne or hostage-rescue operations still wanted PDWs with more powerrifle-caliber power to be exact. Sig's new SnakeBite . Springfield Armory Saint Victor. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY - SAINT 16" 5.56 BRAVO CO MLOK HANDGUARD. Compare. There is longer rifling in the barrel of the handgun currently on my hip than there is in this PDW. Like the MPX, the MCX uses a short-stroke gas piston system, which does away with the need for a buffer system, and the weapon can use a folding stock or no stock at all. (Tie) LWRC Smg-45 ($3k?fuck!) The $1000 CMMG Mk4T may still use the M1 buttstock and grip, but the 416 stainless-steel barrel offered a 1:7 twist on the inside and a bead-blast finish on the outside. Provided for advice, just in case you talk yourself into buying one. I own the Springfield Saint Victor. Now weve got Springfields PDW in a similarly sized envelope, namely albeit chambered in 5.56 NATO. The barrel has a 1:8-inch twist and is Melonite coated. Eight major concealed carry insurance programs are now available to the millions of Americans who carry concealed. I'm a sucker for. And I also used a LaRue Tactical offset mount to install a SureFire M312 Vampire Scout, which produces white and IR light. All in, our CMMG rifle displayed 1-MOA accuracy on average for all shots fired, despite our difficulties with the trigger. According to the Sig Rep on ARFCOM: "6.75"/LVAW barrel was/is not made to be fired unsuppressed. Not only did the 77-grainers shoot straight, this uber-short-barreled pistol grouped between 2.5 and 4 MOA with everything I gave it. Thanks Bio. This five-position brace was specifically designed for PDW-sized guns and only hangs 4 inches off the back of the receiver when fully collapsed. When it comes to affordability, most figured Palmetto State Armory was going to show up sooner or later on this list. Now with the updated SAINT Edge PDW goes further, by going smaller. Both suppressors were more effective than, say, a flash suppressor or muzzle brake, but dont expect the gun to be as quiet as those shown in the movies. Save my name and email to use for future comments. However, I ended up loving it for what it is. Its truly impressive. This is a 100-yard rifle. For a firearm chambered in a rifle caliber, that is shockingly short, especially when you consider the first 2.26 inches or so is the chamber. The selector switch is bilateral and works just fine. The test shooter said he was on target inside the A-zone, but the trigger didnt respond. Both of them are chambered in uncommon, proprietary bottleneck cartridges, the 5.7x28mm and 4.6x30mm, respectively. My wife surprized me with a Birthday gift this year the new CZ TS2 Blue . Because I knew the velocity would be lacking, most of my chronographing was done with 5.56 NATO ammo, which runs a bit hotter. Elwood Shelton is an online content developer for Gun Digest. For our distance work we mounted a SIG Sauer 3-12x42mm Tango4 optical scope ($900 MSRP). Bob Meinert, FN Marketing Director, introduces FN's first commercial pistol suppressor, the FN Rush 9Ti. But I also own several Springfields (M1As in 308 & 6.5cm, Saint Ar15 when it first came out, compact XDe, XDs & XD Mod2 all in 45s, TRPs in 45 & 10mm and the now discontinued Range Officer in 45). I would go with the sig. Suppressed, the Rattler ran everything on the supersonic setting (less gas). A staff member recently paid $2300 for a complete AR-15 carbine without regret. Much of their stuff is imported and rebranded. To find out what it was like to operate these guns at speed, we visited the Impact Zone Range in Hempstead, Texas for some timed close-quarters fire. The 3rd pic is the new Snakebite M400 5.56 Rifle , But It's a stock photo . To find out if any of the above added up to improved performance, we tested for accuracy from the 100-yard line at American Shooting Centers in Houston. Its perfect for indoor situations where 25 yards is a long shot and overpenetration is a concern. Barrel-twist rate was 1:8. I will not consider another firearm from the Saint line ever again. The barrel is only 5.5 inches longsomething unthinkable with a direct-impingement AR. We tested our 1:7/1:8-twist-barreled carbines with 60-grain V-Max 223 Remington rounds plus 5.56mm ammunition topped with 69-grain OTM (open-tipped match), 77-grain OTM, and 77-grain TMK (tipped Match King) rounds from Black Hills Ammunition. This test was performed cold, one and done with no makeups. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. Caliber: 300 AAC Blackout-MSRP: 1015. Sig offers several variants, including pistols with stabilizing braces. The buttstock, although appearing very much in the M4 tradition, was modified to offer holes on each side for a quick-detach sling loop. I really appreciate the input. Thus, stabilizing subsonic ammo not an issue. It began in earnest in the late 1980s. The new big bore pistols feature industry-first capacity, with a standard 15-round capacity and 22+1 rounds of 10mm or 18+1 rounds of .45 ACP from the extended magazines. The Sig Sauer Rattler. And After shooting the CZ 75 Tatical sport orange I was in love . The bottom line? The upper circumference was reduced, guiding the index finger to the trigger. Our Team Said: When it comes to paying more for a rifle, or any firearm for that matter, its easy to check off a list of features to justify a higher price tag. I fired the PDW at both an indoor and outdoor range on a cloudy day. Surrounding the barrel and piston system is a 5-inch, free-floating M-LOK handguard. However, given the options available, there are plenty of reasons and opportunities to buy a complete firearm.

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